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Post by Pelicn on Jun 22, 2004 20:40:14 GMT -5
it is just too easy to just TELL the student what to do and when... That is exactly what was happening, and I (having to repeat this process) won't allow it to happen again. Another example of the lack of "teaching" is when an instructor will give you "marks on the pavement" as a guide and tell you turn here, or straighten at this point, etc. Now what the heck good is that?
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Post by truckertom on Jun 22, 2004 22:25:53 GMT -5
"Now what the heck good is that?"
Really! What good is that going to in Pittsburgh PA? Could you imagine if you pulled up to the dock, got out of your truck and started spray painting stripes on their parking lot? LOL! Just phone your instructor and ask him from Oklahoma how to back into this dock....maybe a picture cell phone would help!
Yeah, sometimes I wonder why I am still calling myself a driving instructor. I should opt for the title: "Vocational Dream Crusher Extraordinaire". No one knows what that means!
We had a company trainer call us on the phone telling us how badly one of our ex students were trained, can't back, can't shift. So we traced this student back to their instructor and it is the same one we get all the complaints about. This instructor is hanging by her last thread, but they won't fire her! She is terrible with female students, yells at them, cusses them and nearly got hit by one of them. But they won't fire her because she may file unemployment on us.
What good does that do the student attending your school?
Instructors who are long term instructors start to compromise their training after they get "Comfortable" in the job. No more pushing the students, they find the easiest way to receive a paycheck while providing the least ammount of training possible. Of course, this is a huge over generalization but good instructors are very, very hard to find. The pay does not change between the great instructor and the lousy one.....both receive the same pay.
"Those who can do, those who can't teach".
Sometimes I wonder why I don't make a few calls and hit the road myself........
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 23, 2004 5:10:31 GMT -5
We aught to just give up and start our own school, I bet we could beat what is out there now! Name the time and place! ;D ;D Had I won that $145 Million the other day, Id have built one heck of a school!!! It would be marvelous! The Lead Instructor and I at MDD went to lunch every couple of weeks when the students where at the skid pad and build the dream school..ahhhh only to be a gazzilionare!
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Post by Pelicn on Jun 23, 2004 8:22:29 GMT -5
If you were a gazzillionaire, I'd be your first student!! ;D
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Post by truckertom on Jun 23, 2004 10:32:44 GMT -5
I don't think you have to be a Gozillionare! The first item is securing fianancing, but that is do-able. We have three financing sources where I am now. But that is a big part of the problem. Owners are under the impression that fianancing is the hardest part of a school. Hell, you can find finance people anywhere, some are going through truck driving school because the are sick of taking home $350 a week, how much do bean counters make anyway?
Schools are either becoming more successful or less with every passing student. Your school is only as good as your last class. If one group of people had a school that lived up to what everyone expects a school to be, you would have every carrier in the US waiting in line to hire your students. But this is one of the reasons I got passed over when our owner had to choose a new director, because I really beleive the above statement is true. The quality of your training is what will keep you in business forever, and this is why I could never be a director. Most owners see financing as the challenge, I see financing as a paper game you have to play with finance companies, co signers etc. etc. etc.
I used to consider the company training thing as the key to a school with no money worries. But I know better now. One school I was at trained for no one but FFE, List, Middleton...all the same company. When we solved their turnover problem by providing them with new drivers, they stopped sending us students. That is when we went under. So I had to change my thinking on that one.
One school I was at, Cowtown driving school here in Fort Worth Texas, sold out to Franklin College. Franklins reputation had gotten so bad that companies stopped taking our students. We had no idea why until we started doing refreshers on some of the grads from other school accross the US. These guys could not drive......But this is what ruins schools! And BTW, Cowtown was no training superpower either.
But while the man in the suit sits upstairs and peers out over his vast Empire of old trucks and older truckers. He is oblivious that his instructors spend their days parked on the side of the road eating breakfast, post breakfast, pre-lunch, lunch, post lunch break and then from 3:33 to 5:00 pm, they are parked at a truckstop practicing a break tests while the instructor is inside flirting with the waitresses. And all the while the owner has no idea what he is doing because he has never actually driven a truck for a living......He really knows nothing of the trucking industry except for what he hears second hand.
Or you have the instructor with an ego problem. Oh I love that one! Here is a guy that got pushed around as a child and now he has been given an outlet to strike back. So instead of getting an instructor that you see as a Father figure, you have the abusive uncle cussing students all the way through the course. So when you mess up, he is going to tell you how stupid you are! And when you complain about the verbal abuse, he is going to tell you how weak you are for not taking it! Then you find out that he was a driver for 8 months and actually went through the same school a year ago. Do these kinds of things really happen at schools? Oh yes they do. An owner that is looking for a training staff that will never tell him when he is messing up may never hear a word from an ex-student.
About all you would have to do to have a very successful school is to catalog every mistake we have ever seen a school make and vow not to repeat them. And you may have to train your own instructors if you want it done right. And you are going to have to do what every successful business does with employees: Keep the good, and send the bad to your competition. We have a list of names at our school that we will not hire. We HOPE they stay where they are at now. Having crappy instructors lining the halls at our local competitors just makes us better. If we fire one, they make a B-line to one of the others in town.
So what do you think? Has the instructor business made me crazy yet? I may well be on my way! I tell my studnets that my secret to staying calm is two Valiums every morning.....
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 23, 2004 15:24:56 GMT -5
As the "Team Leader" I was the SOB that was responsible for training in the new instructors and explaining to them that our MAIN focus was UNIFORMITY!!!!!! We made sure that EVERY instructor taught the important issues the same way! There is no way that an instructor can "un teach" what another instructor does! If we are all on the same page then the students can be taught by any instructor! If you have a united training plan then everyone know what each other is doing! If a student tries the "he didnt ever tell me that" approach when failing, we knew that the student was just blowing smoke. With a good training schedule and documentation of their progress (NOTES NOTES NOTES!!!) the students true progess and problems can be addressed and fixed (hopefully).
When we had an instructor "freelancing" or teaching things that were not normal, the tests and the scores almost automatically reflected it. At the end of every cycle of stidents, we instructors would get together and discuss what was good and what was bad.
We hired people based on their attitudes! If they were only there because they saw "full metal jacket" and wanted to Sgt Hartman...they didnt make it past the first interview! The problem with finding good instructors is that you cannot just hire some mope who's tired of the road and "needs a break". You have to hire people who want to turn out GOOD, SAFE and COMPETANT drivers!!!!
The female instructor thing still cracks me up! We had a hell of a female instructor! She was my right hand man and I counted on her to do the job correctly and she NEVER let me down. We had another female trainer but she was a realtive newbie and didnt last long.
Here comes the Irony!!! While women claim to want to see female instructors, they tend to treat the female instructors with little to no respect!!! They would seem to treat them as inferior to the male instructors!! I was the person with the most driving experience and she was second, the other instructors were not even close! But the female students just seemed to fawn all over the male instructors and get VERY nitpicky and sometime downright nasty with the female instructors.
While some men were a bit pig headed and scoffed at the females, usually after the first day when she showed them how far they had to go just to get near her expertise and level of skill they would follow her every word! The Men were usually VERY impressed after being embarrassed LOL.
Fozzy
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Post by truckertom on Jun 23, 2004 18:02:56 GMT -5
"As the "Team Leader" I was the SOB that was responsible for training in the new instructors"
I am the same SOB at our school, funny though you still have to have someone backing you up. When the owners keep a student that needs to go down the road. You know where it is headed.
But most of the schools around here are way worse than us......but it could be alot better but I ain't running the show. That is our director!
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Post by skullitor on Jun 25, 2004 11:04:44 GMT -5
Man this is a very interesting thread.
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 25, 2004 19:21:26 GMT -5
Yeah, been there done that, We've had students show up with CDL's who could not drive a lick! One student from the Chicago area (with CDL) was soooo bad that I flatly refused to take him out of the ranges! He was placed in his own truck with another instructor and NEVER got out of the range. He left there as bad as he showed up...now THAT's a real kick to the instructor ego! He complained that he was not allowed to drive where his classmates were driving and was told that it was simply unsafe to do so!
Fozzy
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Post by maineiac on Jun 25, 2004 21:30:49 GMT -5
where do i sign up???soon please sad truth is i'm having the same experience about the scuff mark in the sand ect plus our teachers want to go home at noon i drive 4 hrs a day to get there please can't we stay one whole day....don't mean to blank you guys off but i need to get this and get a job and frankly it ain't happening with 5 students sharing 2 trucks plus the guys from last class. also a new class started on the range today yippee less trucks more students one instructor..hmm
it's been my experience and the other students in our class that we are on our own,which to a certain extent is a good thing but i think instructors should teach pre trip not other students.
and while i'm raving,not that you want to hear it,why can't the instructor ride in the truck with me just once to correct my maneuvers...oops being grouchy and will get in trouble.....
with all sincerity i would so wish you guys would start a school..
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Post by skullitor on Jun 29, 2004 16:43:09 GMT -5
;D The REAL trick to backing is GO SLOW! Don't let the trailer get away. The LONGER the trailer,THE EASIER to back! Walk the trailer in slowly!!! Follow with turning the wheel to correct it.Remember turn the OPPOSITE WAY.A trick I used was a toy tractor trailer with a hand control.You have to picture the trailer king pin.That toy really helped me. I bought it a Radio Shack. Skull
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Post by truckertom on Jun 30, 2004 20:48:46 GMT -5
"I think instructors should teach pre trip not other students......why can't the instructor ride in the truck with me just once to correct my maneuvers."
WAIT A MINUTE!......Back up just a little. Do you mean to tell me that a student is teaching the pre trip? Who is taching you backing, the janitor?
Sounds to me like you are neck deep in a huge CDL mill. These maneuvers you are talking about, do you mean backing or down the road? And if the instructors are giving up on the day at noon, then why don't they go home....and stay there!
Oh I would be cleaning house there, I'd fire the biggest kingpin of wasting a students money and put the rest on a 90 minute probationary period......sounds like you need to get the hell out of there and report them to Better Business and the state agency that handed them a certification for truck driving training.
But then, hey! Who am I? I'm just an ignorant truck driver! If students don't stand up for yourselves you'll get walked on for years. If you are not getting the training you were promissed when enrolling, you need to put a boot up someones butt 'til you do. This is costing you money.
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Post by Fozzy on Jul 1, 2004 6:21:43 GMT -5
The problem here is that MOST students do not talk to nor read the information in these sites! I have a good friend who's leased to landstar. I taught his brother how to drive in MY school. He was going through another school in the same state. He thought his school was great until he talked to his bother (my student) at on the phone at nights in the hotel. It's hard for newbies to judge content when they really have no experience to base their opinions on. Now if you want to talk about a real sucker..lets talk about me! LOL I moved my family from Green Bay to this hell hole for an instructor job based on a trucking schools certification and their website. The lead instructor here talked a pretty good show...but I got here and was SHOCKED at the schools condtions and poor levels of training. I decided that I would actually INSTRUCT a few students. They ripped the lead instructor a new one about how they hadn't been instructed until I showed up. This got me immediately laid off? Case in point. I was watching this circus they called the backing/driving range and the "instructor" who sat in the van smoking and listening to the radio when a truck caught my eye. The diver was just starting to set up and then wobble a few times and then speed off around the loop to set up again. I walked over and got to the rear of the backing target and watched as they set up again. I watched this lady set up and start to pull off again. I stopped her and asked; "What's Up?" She was VERY upset and in a high state of aggitation. She explained that she'd been in the course twice before and this was ehr third attempt. She stated that she had no idea what she was doing when she backed and failed the CDL test as many times as she took it. I told her to take a deep breath and clear her head and take another lap and come back and STOP before she started to back. She did what I told her and stopped at the start of the set up point. I asked her to get out of the truck and come with me. This is when I noticed that she was not even 5 feet tall! LOL (Im 6'2"), Anyway I walked her through a backing set up and showed her from the rear of the "slot" where she needed to be. She climbed back in and hit the set up perfectly. I told her to STOP and get out again. I walked her back and showed her were she needed to have the trailer if she was going to make it into the slot. She started backing and she was like a battery operated monkey or a bad bruce lee immitator! oversteering wildly. I got her slowed down and made her take small "bites" of steering and correcting and she went right into the slot. I told her to stop when she was in the correct place. She looked astonished! She had never made it into the slot (in 12 weeks of training). She was really looking a bit confused and I told her to try it again. She GREASED IT the second attempt! She tried this about five more times and while still having some over steering issues, she was HAPPY!!!! I've never seen a 4' something person walk so tall!! She was ecstatic! Of couse she promptly stomped into the head honcho's office and gave him holy hell! LOL Instructing pays in strange ways! I felt great helping..but it sucked being out of work! LOL Fozzy` Sorry for the novel!
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Post by truckertom on Jul 1, 2004 19:27:29 GMT -5
It is the old "no good deed will go unpunished" syndrome. I was really just over reacting a little, I know what goes on at mose schools, we have at ours a long, long "Shift list" of names of instructor we will never hire where I am at. But one way to guage how good of an instructor you are is how much the other instructors hate you.
So we shall call our new school "Outcasters Trucker Training".....(Oh that will attract attention, not much business I suppose).
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