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Post by scorpius on Jun 16, 2004 17:35:09 GMT -5
I am still in school and have 7 weeks left before I go to Werner (prehire).. I take Paxil as prescribed by my doctor and want to know if anyone has had any incidents with it showing in the drug tests?
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Post by maineiac on Jun 16, 2004 19:28:39 GMT -5
you might try the forum at truck.net,they have a section on medical issues. i would reccomend talking with your physician and if he/she agrees writing you a note that taking the antidepressant does not affect your ability to drive, you will need this if you take your meds in the truck.
you may also call your proposed carrier and see what the company policy is to avoid any problems once you arrive good luck and best wishes
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 18, 2004 3:58:37 GMT -5
I am still in school and have 7 weeks left before I go to Werner (prehire).. I take Paxil as prescribed by my doctor and want to know if anyone has had any incidents with it showing in the drug tests? CALL WERNER NOW!!!! Do NOT wait until you finish school. Werner has a company doctor in their Omaha terminal and you need to call the doctor and inquire in the drug(s) you are current on is acceptable. This will give you time to change to drugs that ARE allowable by the company. It matter VERY little what will or will not show up in the DOT drug screens! They are looking for obvious street drugs and alcohol during these tests. There are trucking companies that for liability reasons will NOT allow people on anti-depressants to hire on! You could be a safe driver minding your own business and even if you are found 100% NOT AT FAULT in an accident they can sue you and the company in CIVIL court and lose millions of dollars. Just one of the websites gave me this list for side effects of Paxil! Can you imagine this in the trial lawyer's hands in court? Paxil (Paroxetine)--Nausea, sleepiness, fatigue, dizziness, trouble sleeping, sweating, tremor, loss of appetite, anxiety Any of these can show "proof" that you were "possibly" the reason that you were a cause of the death or dissmemberment of someone... PLEASE call and make sure that you are "good to go"!!!Fozzy
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Post by truckertom on Jun 18, 2004 13:16:32 GMT -5
I had a student that was taking something for depression. It was one of those "feel good" pills for folks that cannot cope with every day life without a crutch. I know doctors prescribe medicine for all kinds of ailments today. It is like depression, who isn't depressed when you have been looking for work for 6 weeks and have found nothing? So what do we do? We take a pill!
If you can't cope with regular life, how in the world are you going to cope with the OTR lifestyle? My student was on this stuff because his mother and father had him on it during highschool. He got off it knowing it would interfere with a trucking job. Can you imaging if they prescribed marajuna for depression, and one trucker won a landmark case allowing him to continue to smoke it?
If you want to drive a truck, you may have to find another way to deal with emotional (or whatever it was) problems. The last thing we need on the road is somone taking a pill that makes them drowsy right before they attempt to drive 11 hours staight. We have enough now taking drugs and trying to drive 48 hour straight.
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Post by GMC1500 on Jun 18, 2004 21:36:03 GMT -5
i'm no expert here but the info on the drug says may not will. now if you've been on it a while you should know if it does or doesn't. if you look up high blood pressure meds you see that it also says may cause drowsiness or dizziness and you can drive as long as your bp is under control. TT please remember that depression comes in many forms. for some it will pass with time and/or meds. for others it's a chemical thing in the brain and not a lack of character. sometime you just can't "get over it," people with depression can live normal lives thanks to the new medications today. i agree that you need to let the school know. you have to tell dr all about your meds for you DOT exam anyway.
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 18, 2004 22:58:23 GMT -5
[/b]
The term MAY will sink you in court. “Members of the jury, the fact that the defendant was on antidepressant medication MAY have contributed to the death of Mr.Jones. According to the warnings, the dangers are self evident and the defendant took this drugs knowing it…. The prosecution rests…
[/b]
It matters little unless you can prove that you were unaffected by the medications. Proving that you are completely unaffected by a drug when you are taking it based on the effects it gives you would be near impossible.
[/b]
And there are more and more companies that require drivers to have a FULL two-year medical card before hiring them. They are doing everything in their power to protect themselves from the “poor mans lottery” (the Court System).
[/b]
Well this is a give and get situation. If a person is depressed to the extent that they need medication, they should NOT put their own lives (let alone mine) to try a job that is FULL of depressing things. Long hours, low pay, living in small metal box, VERY limited access to family and friends, tight time schedules, poor food, sometimes limited access to showers, DAILY stressful events, and ZERO positive reinforcement! Until they are off these meds IMHO they shouldn’t even consider this line of work. It’s not all the fun and games that some people think that it is. [/b]
It matters VERY little what the school says or thinks. We are talking about what happens to some people when the are self assured that something may be “OK” when in fact they get sent home on the bus after the first day with their carrier. I’ve seen this happen MORE than once! It’s pretty sad to see these people who are usually on their last dime when they arrive get told “Sorry, we cannot use you”.
Fozzy
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Post by GMC1500 on Jun 18, 2004 23:55:32 GMT -5
www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/391.41.htmdid i touch a nerve here? frankly we're not in court and my opinion is mine just as yours is yours. you would be very surprised if you knew all the people that do and can function with depression. we're not in the dark ages any more but we still have a long way to go in understanding this disease. you're right it's not fun and games but there's pressure in any job. if you go to the site for dot you can see you can drive as long as it does not interfere with you ability to drive safely. depression does not equal crazy. with that said i will get off my soapbox for i have a feeling there are just as many people out there that feel the way you do just as there are many who feel the way i do. so we'll agree to disagree.
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Post by truckertom on Jun 19, 2004 12:05:43 GMT -5
"TT please remember that depression comes in many forms. for some it will pass with time and/or meds. for others it's a chemical thing in the brain and not a lack of character."
Ya see, that ain't going to get it in a job situation and a DOT Physical. A school is going to tell you anything you want to hear to get you signed up and paying....it is a money thing. Later on when you fail a drug screen because you have somthing in your urine that is suspicious, the school is still going to demand your money.
This is like a young soldier being told when he gets his first assignment that everything he learned about war in boot camp is wrong. And If I am sympathetic toward people suffering from depression, it does not make a difference what you or I think. It is what the company and DOT rules and regulations are. It is like standing up in the middle of the battle and expecting the war to stop while you announce to the UN that the other side is not following the rules of engagement.
For example; You work in a headshop and smoke about 6 joints a day. You have a letter from your doctor stating that you smoke dope because you have Glaucoma. So you decide you want to become a trucker. So you take the DOT physical and fail the drug screen. Now you have to wait about 1 1/2 months to get the pot out of your system before re-testing. The school lets you get by with that because you are paying them money.
Three months later, you pass the DPS (DMV) road test and you are well on your way to becoming a trucker. Except that when you go home between graduation and orientation at the company you have signed on with, you go with your friends and smoke a little dope. A week later, you fail your drug screen at a company. You show them the letter from your doctor and the company does not care if your doctor says it is OK. You tell them that the driving school gave you a chance to clean up and gave you another chance and they tell you that this is not a driving school, that this is the real deal and they cannot allow pot smokers to drive their trucks. So you get mad at the gross injustice and beat your head against the wall and turn flips in the companies office.....and none of that matters, you are now unhireable and now you have one failed drug screen on your record.
Now, I understand that this is a bit of a stretch as a comparison, but POT may well be on it's way to being legal, much like anti-depressants are now. Our opinions on this do not matter to companies or the DOT. And if this young man in the illustration wants to continue to smoke pot, he will never drive a truck. These are his choices; Smoke or Truck.
As far as I not understanding depression, I have been a trucker for 27 years. I suffered through several companies going under with me driving for them. I suffered when the oil field went away in Oklahoma and Texas and had to go back to making little or no money hauling wheat. I have been at the top of the trucking game and have been trampled by the trucking game. If anyone is qualified to take anti-depressants, it is I. And I am sure that if I found an M.D. and explained my trucking life to him, he could ease my pain by prescribing me "pills to cure my ills". If all my many years of sacrifice and hardship mean nothing to a company, how much will a justification of anti-depressants mean to the same company coming from a rookie?
And no, this is not an unfriendly jab at someone who is no doubt a perfectly good and upright citizen, someone who would be an asset to all of us truckers. This is not a statement from an "Narrow Minded, 'old school' Trucker" it is letting this young man know what he is in for.....Sorry to have been a service to him. The fact that he asked means he is wondering about it. But there is a huge canyon between how we truckers think it should be and how companies have made it. I am just trying to tell you how it is, and you are not going to be able to take depression medicine and drive OTR. That is just the way it is. So forgive me telling you the truth ahead of time so as to let you prepare for what is comming.
I too would like to see you succeed. You seem very thoughtful and considerate, but if you want to drive for a living, you may have to drop the Paxil. Just remember, I don't make the rules. Trucking is an entirely different world from what you are used to. Your work history now has to go back 10 years because of terrorism....Now, how many terrorists have you seen driving 18 wheelers?
Go down to your nearist truckstop and buy a Federal Motor Carriers Handbook (it is green) and read all the laws we are expected to follow. You may even see why we are saying what we are to you about the realities of trucking.
Trucking is not for everyone. You have to have a pretty thick skin to do it. But like I say, this is not a personal attack on you at all. We are just telling it like it is.
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 19, 2004 13:11:44 GMT -5
Nice post! I tried this early AM to answer the same post but the internet buggaboo fought me. There is a difference that this poster (and others I've had the same discussion with) are simply either igonorant about (not in a BAD way) or purposely avoiding. FACT: The DOT regulations say that I CAN drive. REALITY: most drivers do not drive for the DOT. Companies have more strict policies than the DOT. It's legal to run recaps on steering axles and drive with a certain percentage of broken leaf springs...how many companies do that? I realize that people on these meds are going to defend their use of them to make them feel better and function as they feel they should. THATS THEIR CHOICE! It is however a new world where one in three businesses will be sued and have to defend themselves in court!!!! ANYTHING that is not the norn is and can be used against the company and it's just common sense to limit your liability! No one said here that depressed equals crazy! That's usually the next thing that comes out of this descussion! I like you have been through the emotional wringer of the industry and did not end up on medication. From being laid off work during the christmas holidays with a wife with cancer to being laid off after major knee surgery to the loss of family members while on the road... These things happen and to put someone who is DEPENDING on meds to protect them in a truck is just something that some companies will NOT DO It should not be a shock to them! From being out on the road and losing the meds, having them stolen to having the persciptions run out. To the fact that trail lawyers will sue for ANY and NO reason nowadays leads companies to just not take the chance anymore. I'm not here to judge anyone personally. I'm here to head off the "OOPS" factor and add input for newbies who have not thought of things that I've personally witnessed or experienced. If people like Truckertom and I are "blown off" with the "you guys don't get it" attitude...we will just say;"We tried"....and move on to the next topic. Fozzy
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Post by truckertom on Jun 19, 2004 14:11:46 GMT -5
I just don't want anyone thinking that I am hating on them for depression, I know folks have personal troubles. I sing the blues myself at times, I just don't let the boss hear me!
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Post by slubros on Jun 24, 2004 20:17:22 GMT -5
scorpius, I can help you out on this topic. I take Prozac and just completed orientation with Werner. I noted it when I took the drug test/physical and no one said anything. One of the questions on the classroom tests had to do with reporting any prescriptions you take to the medical doctor in Omaha (like Fozzy mentioned). scorpius, if you want any additional info, feel free to email me at slubros@comcast.net This thread helped clinch me changing my mind as I have decided to go no further with training. I had a bad training experience last Sept with another company and was going to try it again with Werner now. Classroom work went okay but my anxiety about having another bad training experience and worrying about the lifestyle made me realize that my mental and physical health is the most important thing and it won't get any better being an OTR trucker. Now for you, truckertom and fozzy! Those are some of the most ignorant comments I have ever read on any message board. Depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain; it has NOTHING to do with having "the blues" or just getting dealt a bad hand in life. People like you are what keeps people like me in the closet. We can function just as normally as you can on the job. But I will give you guys props for opening my eyes and making me realize that I'm not cut out for trucking like you almighty guys are!
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 25, 2004 19:11:20 GMT -5
Ignorant? Not really, while depression in most cases is due to a chemical imbalance or chemical reaction, chemical reaction of the brain is basically how it works in the first place. On my part I was explaining (or trying to) the reasons that SOME people who feel the need to be medicated for their diagnosed (or MISDIAGNOSED) depression may not get hired or in fact fired for being on these drugs. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to equate the use of anti-depressants to someone who may not be cut out for the inherant and almost certain depression that IS OTR trucking. It also should be no shock to those without an ax to grind that trucking companies have every right to protect themselves from the “fallout” that a driver on anti-depressants involved in a fatal accident MAY cost them! Some of you people need to quit reacting and start reading what is posted. Nothing eh? Now who’s trying to BS the troops? There are times when EVERYONE gets depressed in their lives. MOST people handle the depression and some cannot and are diagnosed as clinically depressed and wind up on meds. To say that depression is not brought on by a person’s environment is just utter hogwash and the ramblings of someone trying to defend their use of their drug of choice..nothing more! Well there are plenty of people who take their drug of choice and decide to live within the limits that their drugs give them. Others “hide in the closet” and pretend that it will never happen to them. They can walk away from the results with an excuse, the company gets to pay the costs! If I had to take a medication that MAY effect my driving then it is up to ME personally to remove myself from the position until I am free and clear from the malady that has caused this. The world doesn’t OWE me. Almighty? No one here is really claiming “divinity” or super powers, we just see the career and the industry from the INSIDE. This used to be worth something. I’ve been told many times that I know “nothing about trucking” by people who have never driven. It’s kind of funny to have a person sitting in my classroom telling me what I don’t know about X.Y or even Z… Fozzy ~ waiting to someday learn about trucking
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Post by truckertom on Jun 25, 2004 21:39:44 GMT -5
"Now for you, truckertom and fozzy! Those are some of the most ignorant comments I have ever read on any message board."
Yes, I suppose if this were a self help board it might seem pretty ignorant. But it is not. Thanks for the complement!
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Post by slubros on Jun 25, 2004 22:30:09 GMT -5
I somehow had a feeling I was going to get flamed so here I am to defend myself.
Was the "you people" really necessary? I understand what you're saying about trucking companies and liability issues. If it was an issue, I guess Werner would have kicked me out of orientation but they didn't. I'm not an expert as to what anti-depressants are allowed by different trucking companies.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Clinical depression is not affected by good times or bad times in life; it is always present. Most "normal" people just go through a bad stretch and eventually work their way out of it but someone with clinically-diagonosed depression can't do that.
That's one of the reasons why I decided to not enter training with Werner. I had concerns about driving long stretches but really not so much about the Prozac, more about the irregular sleep patterns. I also have acid reflux problems that would probably get worse with eating too much junk food or not eating much at all.
This debate isn't about knowing about driving. My issue is you that you don't know much about psychology. I'm not a doctor but I live with this and you (lucky for you) don't. I'll readily admit that I knew nothing about trucking and all I know now is what I saw in the classroom at two companies.
truckertom, I saw your comment before you edited it. You obviously are good at what you do and were made to be a trucker since you have 37 years in. You're right; it's not a self-help board, it's a truck driving board. It is obvious to me now that I'm not cut out for trucking and I won't be pursuing any further employment.
I was only trying to help the gentleman who started this post but when I read the uninformed comments, I just couldn't stay quiet. As I said above with fozzy, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Fozzy on Jun 26, 2004 10:50:30 GMT -5
This is the MAJOR point that seems to be at issue with you
Most "normal" people just go through a bad stretch and eventually work their way out of it but someone with clinically-diagonosed depression can't do that.
What have I been saying? Just as alcoholics cannot work in a distillery, pedophiles should not work in nursery schools people with clinical depression should not work in OTR trucking. If they are or can be in a situatuion where depression WILL BE present, they should be excluded from it.
The fact that some of them are ignorant of the industry and its poor level of treatment and generaal living conditions of the driver as a whole 9especially NEW Drivers) and the fact that some WILL not means that some of these people will go ahead with it and they are sometimes NOT informed enough to inform their companies that they ARE in fact on a drug that MAY be in fact against company policy.
My point is and always has been is to CHECK WIT THE COMPANY before wasting time going through the motions of hiring on!!!!
Next point?
Fozzy
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