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Post by Rachelle on Feb 28, 2004 11:03:01 GMT -5
Do any of you instructors get to the point of teaching your students to drive without the clutch?... I never have tried... The school was too fond of the trucks' transmissions.... ;D Although, on the other hand, they were fond of their clutches, too, and they sure went through a lot of those... Still, I guess a new clutch is still a whole lot cheaper than a new tranny. No, but really, I am a firm believer that if you cannot double clutch properly and well, that you have no business shifting without the clutch. The potential is too high for serious transmission damage if you miss. Just me, though... and some thought I was a pretty hard-***, so you may want to take that with a grain of salt.
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Post by truckertom on Feb 28, 2004 22:56:34 GMT -5
If I get a student that has double clutching down to an art, I will teach them to "float". But if they are marginal shifters need more practice I won't.
I feel they have a whole career to learn to cheat, my job is to teach them the right way. They can learn that on their own time.
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Post by fozzie on Feb 29, 2004 1:48:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback!
I understand that getting throttle control and double clutching down to an art is prerequisite to "floating". I was just curious if it is ever taught early on when students start showing they are really "getting it".
I'm still a bit shaky, at times, with some combinations like double-downs. I'll wait until I can pick any straight or combination shift and nail it without a problem before attempting it without the clutch.
Tom, I'm surprised you call it cheating! Nearly every seasoned driver I have talked to say they shift without the clutch. I figured it's more common than not.
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Post by Charles on Feb 29, 2004 10:51:48 GMT -5
I'd like to hear more about this too. I have a '65 F-350 1-1/2 ton dually that I added a brownie to (a Spicer 5831 from a "real" truck). I have found that I can shift the brownie more smoothly by using the clutch only to pull it out of gear, and then matching revs and shifting without re-clutching.
I think it's because as soon as the clutch is disengaged, the engine side of the gears start slowing down at different rates at different times, depending on the temp of the gear lube, how fast you step on the pedal, etc. With the clutch engaged I know by the tach and speedo exactly what is turning at what speed.
That said, I haven't driven a heavy truck yet (except in low gear in my yard) so I don't know what, for example, the Fuller 9-speed in my '87 would feel like on the road.
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Post by truckertom on Feb 29, 2004 12:53:09 GMT -5
Fozzie
When I call it "cheating" I am winking while I am doing it. That is toungue in cheek. But I still teach double clutching first, my boss is telling me that is how more companies are expecting it right out of school.
I guess he would know?
Charles
What pushing the clutch in does for taking it out of gear, it to relieve the bind on the sincros so you can slide them out. It would be like gripping your intangled fingers hard while trying to pull them apart as opposed to doing it with no pressure applied. You can do that with the throttle if you can get it in the sweet spot where the engine is neither pulling the truck, or the truck is pushing the engine. When you get it right, the stick will nearly fall out of gear in you hand.
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Post by truckertom on Apr 18, 2004 9:04:10 GMT -5
Jason’s Last Day.
Saturday, April the 17. And the Texas sky was clear and welcoming as an old friend at a bar b que cook out. The traffic was mild, roads were in good shape, and even though the world looked as if nothing was happening, there was a milestone being passed in a career. It was Jason’s last day.
When I was younger, Jason asked me to teach him to drive. And even though I never, ever wanted this young son in law of mine to follow me into truck driving, I submitted to the request and taught him how to drive an 18-wheeler. I took him on the same roads that I had taken all my students years before as a driving instructor for the first time. But unlike my students that needed told the same things over and over again, Jason took to it like a duck in water, it was like he was born to it. Years later, after trying to make a living as a driver, and be a father to his children at the same time, he became a driving instructor himself and he was a good one. He has in the past five years taught many to drive, and as a driving instructor he is no doubt the best I have ever worked with. But today, after 10 years I finally get my wish, Jason my son in law is no longer a truck driver. April the 17th was his last day as an instructor. And I am proud of him.
Tomorrow morning he begins his career at Union Pacific Railroad. After going to all these hiring seminars for months, he has finally landed the job. In five years he may well be operating a locomotive. His children (my grandchildren) will always have medical insurance, my daughter will never have to drive around town in an uninsured car, while she waits for the Driving Schools payroll check to stop bouncing. They are never going to have to wait two weeks for a late paycheck because the driving school owner decided to go to Las Vegas and spend the payroll on himself. It is a good thing that he is getting out of the driving school business. I will miss my work companion, the rides to and from work together while we laugh at how stupid we are for still being a driving school instructor. Now I will have to laugh alone I guess.
So the world of driving schools has lost another good one, soon to be replaced by another trucker looking for “easy money”. So on with the parade of schools that still do not know the difference between a good instructor and a bad one. Schools that will not do whatever it takes to keep instructors whom their school was built upon.
Sometimes I wish I did not know as much as I do about driving schools, it would make it easier to continue on as an instructor.
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Post by Pcuthbert on Sept 14, 2004 23:15:01 GMT -5
Hi all;
As a driver trainer with my employer, I get asked any number of questions. Most of the questions have to deal with handling the loads as we hire mainly experienced drivers.
I will pose a couple here to get some discussion going.
Why is it important to do a pre trip inspection on a truck that has not moved since you did the post trip inspection?
What tricks can you use to back up a multi trailer combination?
Should I move or lift axles to make it easier to get around in the city?
When climbing hills on ice or slick snow, is it better to run the engine at high or low revs?
Also, there has been some discussion regarding "clutchless shifting". To answer the question, "Why should I learn to 'double clutch' the transmission"?, I feel that there are a number of reasons. Number 1 is that you can cause less damage using the clutch to make the shift. When the clutch is disengaged, there is a lot less potential to cause damage by incorrect gear selection. Number 2. When you want to be sure that you complete the shift (say when climbing a grade or dealing with a slippery surface), using the clutch will almost always guarantee that you make the shift.
I'd like to take this time to pass on to all prospective drivers that whe you are on the road, you have a great responsibility. Not only are you responsible for your equipment, you are responsible (morally) for the actions of all other drivers out there.
Please be safe, be sure, and always communicate your intentions. Indicator lights are your way of telling other drivers that you KNOW what you are doing. If you, the professional driver, demonstrate the right way all the time, then perhaps others will take up the challenge.
Take care;
pat
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Post by truckertom on Sept 15, 2004 21:48:15 GMT -5
Are you asking the students here or the instructors? I did like the one about the post/pre trip inspections. But I have noticed that tires can go flat in a 10 hour sleep period.
When you float, you have to be right on the money with the RPM's. Using the clutch to take it out and put it in seems to give the student more flexablity and grace (for lack of a better word) when it comes to important shifts. But I will admit, that wasn't the way I was taught at all.
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Post by truckertom on Oct 10, 2004 12:51:15 GMT -5
Oh I had a good one the yesterday. The student I will call Fizfaz was on his first day of shifting heading down the west bound service road, relaxed, doing well and enjoying himself. We got out of town about 20 miles and I tell him to turn left, go over the bridge and turn left again on the service road headed the other way. And Fizfaz did a good job doing it until I said " Ok, get on the Interstate"
He looked at me like I was out of my mind! After we got the truck into the top gear he said "I thought it would be days before we took the truck in traffic".
"Just keep watching you mirrors" I said as we sailed east on I-20 heading toward Fort Worth. Then I had to tell him news that he REALLY didn't want to hear.
"Take the next exit!" Oh GOD! Now he had to exit and start downshifting on the off ramp watching traffic. He did really good! But I noticed with the AC keeping the cab really cool, this student had sweat all the way through the seat.
Oh I love my job! We did have a really big laugh about it at the end of the day and every one of them did great for the first time in an 18 wheeler.
I even taught them what SWIFT really means.
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Post by Pcuthbert on Oct 10, 2004 16:55:17 GMT -5
OK Tom;
As a northern Trucker, I'll bite. What does SWIFT really mean?
Pat
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Post by truckertom on Oct 11, 2004 19:58:43 GMT -5
SWIFT..........Sure Wish I'd Finished Training.
(BTW, that is just a little joke. Nothing meant by it)
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Post by Fozzy on Oct 13, 2004 5:44:47 GMT -5
OH yeah! ;D I had a rather large black gentleman who was very chatty and loud and boisterous kind of dude. He was having a really good time while in the training area. We trained in an Industrial park on the west side of I-43 in Green Bay. He was probably my best of the three people and after a few days of lefts rights and stops in the two industrial parks. I had him make a left which took us OUT of the industrial park and out into "real" streets. He was in that seat down the road and into the north side of Green Bay and you could have heard a pin drop for an hour! LOL
He told me after his turn in the seat that it was a dirty trick, but he sure was happy to have done it. I told him that a left or right turn is the same anywhere you go! ;D
Fozzy
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Post by truckertom on Oct 13, 2004 11:15:33 GMT -5
I had one student that got out in the "Real world" for the first time and just did perfect. He really did and great job on his first time turning corners down town.
But when we stopped to change drivers, he went to the rear of the truck and puked his guts up! I had no idea he was that shook up. But he did great the rest of the time (emotionally) and I bet he made someone a good driver.
I bet you have had the same type of thing happen to you!
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Post by truckertom on May 10, 2005 10:46:57 GMT -5
We just graduated a student that will never make in the trucking industry. We tried to get him to stay for more training after he accidentally (we were just trying to prove to him he needed more training) passed a road test, but he wouldn't do it.
In a few weeks, he will be blaming the school.
He had to stay and extra week after his classmates graduated. He was blaming his inability on the truck, the road....anthing but himself. He was so overweight, he couldn't put his legs together to clutch and throttle at the same time for a downshift, he had to shift his butt in the seat to shift gears. He broke my seat!
In a few weeks, he will be blaming the school. He will be blaming everything on his instructors. He is black and uses this to make excuses for not being able to drive an 18 wheeler. One of the other black students got sick of hearing his racial "everyone is picking on me" excuse and told him to shut up.
In a few weeks, he will be blaming the school. He will never pay the loan back so we should have tossed his butt the fist week. But it is not the instructors that are running things. We have always been the low man on the totem pole.
So out of all the new truckers that take to the road today, only a very few of them will still be there in a few months. Out of all the truck driving schools that go in business every year, only a few survive. And it is not always the best, most honest schools that survive. Sometimes it is easier to survive lying to folks than telling them the truth.....especially when they don't listen
Sometimes it is easier to blame it on the school than to take responsibility for yourself. You cannot force someone to learn.
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Post by Pcuthbert on May 15, 2005 11:19:58 GMT -5
TT; That is really sad. Do companies hiring do road tests? Do you think this gent will fail most of them? What about medicals? Are they required before starting at a school?
Perhaps this fellow intends to play the "racial discrimination" game and survive without having to do any work what ever when he gets turned down for employment.
Pat
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